JUNO TALKS with Manfred Meindl
VAUDE is likely one of the most successful and sustainable German outdoor brands 50 years after its founding. One reason for this: Under the direction of Manfred Meindl, VAUDE is consistently led as a brand with a stance, inviting everyone to stand together for a better future. A conversation about stance communication, edginess, and transformation.
Manfred “Manni” Meindl has been with VAUDE since 2010 and is now the Head of Marketing. Additionally, he is a speaker, podcast guest, whitewater kayaker, alpinist, and trail runner.
First of all, congratulations! VAUDE is celebrating its 50th anniversary in 2024 and has also won the German Sustainability Award again this year. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to talk fundamentally about the VAUDE brand once more. What lifestyle does the VAUDE brand sell today?
It is the feeling of wanting to achieve something together with others and shaping a better future through courageous and intelligent action. It is a strong sense of community. You are part of a positive change.
Can you explain that a bit more?
Sustainability has played a significant role for us from the beginning. We want to maintain a livable earth for the future through our economic activities. But we also know that we need changes and changemakers for that. We see that as our task. In our basic attitude, we are optimistic: Through our own courageous actions, we can achieve something better. Buying, repairing, renting, or passing on a VAUDE product is an invitation to join us and others in shaping the path to a better future. That’s how I would describe the “VAUDE feeling,” which is a central theme in all the stories we tell. This attitude resonates very well with our core target groups.
Who are they?
They can be roughly divided into two groups. One seeks the feeling of belonging. They want to be part of something bigger and meaningful. The other group is more perfectionist. These are people who want to know exactly what, how, where, or from what materials something is made. As for the age structure, in the outdoor sector, you can roughly say it ranges from 25 to 60, with a peak at around 40-45. This structure is found in all outdoor brands, except those that have strongly leaned towards lifestyle. Our target groups tend to also have higher household net incomes.
How do you know that your story resonates so well with your target groups? One half is more emotional, the other more rational.
We continuously conduct classic brand tracking including benchmarks. We also do psychographic analyses, though not annually because it would be too expensive and changes don’t happen that quickly. But we see that we are very much on track with our brand positioning, how we address people, and the reasons they buy from us.
Back to the brand. Was the world-changing idea there from the beginning?
Some aspects have been present since the company’s founding, especially the theme of innovation – the desire to create something new within our scope of action. That was part of the culture from the start. With the handover of the company from founder Albrecht von Dewitz to his daughter Antje and the start of sustainable transformation, the story has evolved. From 2009–2010, the “Together for a better future” theme was intensified and has been continuously developed since then.
This probably also has to do with being a family business.
Yes, I think the sense of responsibility and community is further strengthened by that.
What are the biggest brand strategy challenges for you currently?
Our positioning is set. We’ve also clarified for ourselves that we engage in political stance communication and take it public. As a side effect, we see that this helps us in brand positioning and generates more reach than classic product communication. My challenge is how to develop stance communication in countries like France, Italy, the UK, and Scandinavia with limited budgets. In those places, we are historically less strong as a brand compared to here and don’t have the same media contacts. Building that up is, I would say, my major strategic challenge for the next few years. It doesn’t happen overnight.
What do you mean by stance communication?
It’s not about classic product or brand advertising. It’s about showing as a brand where you stand and what you fight for. Since these topics are generally much more relevant, you can build corresponding credibility, positioning, and reach over the years. An interesting side effect is that within our industry, a clear stance on socio-political issues is a clear driver along the customer journey.
Does stance communication reach all your buyers?
Yes, it reaches all target groups. Both the perfectionists and those seeking connection – from awareness to purchase. Knowing what a company and its products stand for is very important along the customer journey. As a company, we have many touchpoints with socio-political issues and can take a strong stance here.
How should one imagine this in practice? Do you pick out topics and say consciously that you will engage in stance communication on them?
Derived from our corporate culture, it quickly became clear to us which fields we want and can be active in. For example, climate protection, climate change, diversity, partnership dealing with people within our company and in production countries, supply chains, gender quota. Or also as supporters of the European Union. To act competently here, we also read party papers or draft laws from Brussels, align them with our positions and experiences as a medium-sized company, develop activities and position papers, and coordinate internally to have unified communication.
It’s evident with you how important the individual person is in stance communication. Antje can certainly be described as an influencer. Did this role grow organically, or was it the strategy?
She grew into this role. Today, she is clearly positioned as a brand spokesperson within the overall brand strategy. She embodies the company and the brand. What we are now strategically working on is to distribute this strong focus on her to other people as well. So that several can set themes in their respective communities and load the brand with stories.
Or to consciously decide where not to appear anymore.
That’s right. It was widely noticed in the press that we said goodbye to X and stopped advertising on social media. We closely monitor in which environments we advertise. Years ago, we advertised a lot through Google Display. You had to be careful not to end up on sites like Breitbart, Fox News, or Bild. For that, we professionalized and expanded our environment analyses. Which advertising channels enjoy the greatest trust and are most used? Which fit our positions? Classic media, whether print or online, are more relevant for our industry than social networks. On X, we realized it’s no longer the platform we originally went live on. In social networks, we can no longer control the environment for our advertising measures, especially in this very political year of 2024.
Which channels work best for stance communication?
I find LinkedIn good, for example. My impression is that companies still don’t quite dare. You can dive deeper into topics and get more attention for what is important to you as a brand and company. On Instagram, the attention span is significantly shorter. It’s more about pictures, videos. Hardly any text. And even more so on TikTok. Even though it’s slowly becoming more “social media,” there is still more substance in the statements, comments, and discussions on LinkedIn than on the other platforms.
Is it just my impression, or are you yourself becoming more political on LinkedIn? I recently read a comment from you about the FDP in Thuringia.
When I hear bullshit in politics, no matter from which party, I like to comment on it ironically. I also do that privately.
Let’s briefly talk about benchmarks. You mentioned it earlier. Who is doing a good job in your industry from a brand perspective and in communication?
Patagonia. They do it very commercially and American. Demanding in their language. Protest! Stand up for your cause! Rebellious in their whole style. The VAUDE communication emphasizes the communal aspect of the same topic. Both are correct but completely different in communication. And also in the brand. While there are overlaps in the target groups, we are different in positioning. Someone buying a Patagonia shirt to make a statement would probably not buy a VAUDE shirt and vice versa. I observe what they do, but I don’t see Patagonia as our direct competitor. They appeal to different people than we do.
Being edgy and loud can make a brand more lifestyle-oriented and emotional. I get the impression that lifestyle is becoming more important in many areas for outdoor brands. Hikers, for example, are getting younger and more female. People in the city like to wear outdoor as lifestyle. Could it be that with the focus on “community,” you don’t want to scare anyone off?
I would disagree with you there. We are not everyone’s darling. Alone because we are very strongly committed against right-wing extremism. I don't even want to know how many people in Germany might say, “Okay, then VAUDE is no longer my brand.” But of course, we want to include people. With too much edge, you quickly exclude people. We rather go into communication with open arms while being crystal clear about what we stand for. There is a bit of rebelliousness in VAUDE too. But much more of the inclusive, communal aspect. We leave the full revolutionary style to other brands.
I noticed that you changed your homepage this year. Is that related to the anniversary, and is it a rebranding or fine-tuning?
It’s more of a fine-tuning. We continuously optimize our web environments. During our last technical relaunch, we also revised parts of the design to achieve a contemporary look and feel. Naturally, aspects of brand positioning were also incorporated. Additionally, we play around with the logo-like now with the rainbow or the 50 – for certain topics that are relevant to us.
As a values-driven brand, I don’t immediately recognize you on the current homepage.
We continuously plan which topics will be sent on which channels. We do this once a month. In these meetings, we analyze, discuss, and plan the next quarter in terms of topics and channels. It may happen that we present the same topic differently on various channels. A clear stance post on LinkedIn can be more effective than the route via the website.
Let’s look into the crystal ball a bit. Over the last 50 years, you have built an impressive brand on your own. What challenges do you think VAUDE will face next?
In the EU, two new directives are about to be adopted to prevent greenwashing and consumer deception in advertising, or one has already been adopted. These are the Empowering Consumers Directive and the Green Claims Directive. This will massively change the environment for environmentally-related communication. Some brands will withdraw, and some will continue to communicate. Terms like “climate neutral” or “sustainable” can no longer be used inflationarily in advertising. We will have to substantiate a lot more accurately and scientifically.
For consumers today, it is probably indeed difficult to understand how “green” a company is. VAUDE does a lot more than most. Do you think your customers fully understand your level of sustainability?
We must not only look at consumers. I also have to convince the trade. Their procurement is demanding and expects the highest competence from us. They perceive and examine it. I believe parts of our target groups recognize our efforts around sustainable business practices in depth. But the general public? At least, we haven’t been punished as much as other brands during the – I’ll call it the “organic crisis”. Because our products are functional, well-designed, and reasonably priced. And above all, they are the most sustainable products in this area. People notice that.
How do you think the climate debate will develop? We just had the EU elections, where the Greens suffered significant losses.
At the moment, we are all still working with the narrative: We can do something against climate change, and if we try hard, we can get it under control. However, there are very strong forces of inertia that want to remain in the old life system, which can lead to forecasted extreme scenarios. I am curious when the penny will drop, and we come to the narrative: Okay, it’s going to be bad. How can we adapt? Then you will also feel a shift in communication. For a brand like ours, which is strongly positioned around the narrative of change, this will also be interesting.
A look into the next crystal ball. How will people think about nature and outdoor topics in the future?
I hope and believe that time in nature in a world of multiple crises can be a kind of “therapy”. In Canada, you can get a prescription for outdoor vacations. I can imagine that time in nature – whether in the mountains, on the coast, or in the nearby forest – will become increasingly important.
In relation to VAUDE, we have now transformed our traditional business model to produce products with a smaller footprint. But that doesn’t change the fact that every new product we make is still harmful. I am curious how we can change our business model to build a profitable business without producing new products – whether through rental systems or by bringing products back to the market.
You are already doing much of what you mention-like renting and repairing. Do you make money with that?
At the moment, it’s an investment. But when we started shifting processes towards sustainability in 2009–2010, it was a small percentage. It developed over decades, and now we look back and say: We did everything right. We need to bring that trust into the new models now.
Last question: What is your highlight product from your range?
That’s a waterproof mountain backpack – our Rupal Proof 28. Made in Germany. You can hit it with an ice axe, and it stays intact. A bit heavy, but my absolute highlight.